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Comparison

Long Ashton vs Asturian thresholds

Why does the same apple get classified differently in England and Spain?

In short

A classification threshold is a decision about where to divide a population, not a discovery about fruit. Long Ashton set its cut points so that Somerset cider fruit divided usefully into four groups. SERIDA set Asturian cut points so that Asturian fruit divided usefully into five.

Because the underlying populations differ, so do the boundaries. Asturian fruit skews acidic, so a threshold that produced a useful split there would put most English fruit on one side; the reverse is equally true.

The practical rule is that a class label is only meaningful with its system named, and that borderline cultivars will be placed differently in good faith. Where the underlying figures exist, they carry more information than the label does.

The two things being compared

Each side described in its own terms first, so the table below has something to hang on.

Where they differ

Dimension by dimension. Where a row needs a qualification, it carries one rather than being simplified until it fits.

Long Ashton thresholds and Asturian thresholds compared. Neither column is the baseline the other is measured against.
DimensionLong Ashton thresholdsAsturian thresholds
Population the thresholds were fitted toFruit grown at one Somerset site across the first half of the twentieth century.Asturian cultivars analysed for the regional designation.
Number of cut pointsTwo, one per axis.Three, with the acid axis divided twice.
What is measured on the phenolic axisNeither resolves the distribution of chain lengths, which is what decides how much of the effect is bitterness and how much astringency.Total tannin.Polyphenol content.
Effect of climateThe same cultivar grown warmer ripens to lower acid and can cross the boundary.Subject to exactly the same effect, which is one reason the thresholds are local.
StatusA research convention with no legal force.Attached to a designation’s permitted-variety list.
What to do with a borderline cultivarSources may place it on either side; the underlying figure is the better record.The same, with the added wrinkle that the regulatory list can be revised.

Notes under a dimension name qualify the whole row, not one column.

When Long Ashton thresholds is the relevant one

The circumstances in which this is the thing being described, rather than a reason to prefer it.

When Asturian thresholds is the relevant one

The circumstances in which this is the thing being described, rather than a reason to prefer it.

A misconception worth clearing up

This comparison exists partly because of the claim below, which is repeated often enough that most readers arrive holding it.

Commonly said

A cultivar has one true class, and disagreement between sources means one of them is mistaken.

What is actually the case: Class depends on the system and on where the fruit grew. The same tree can sit either side of a threshold in two seasons. Disagreement between a Somerset record and an Asturian one is usually two accurate observations of different fruit, not an error.

Related comparisons

Distinctions that turn on the same thing, or that this one is routinely confused with.

What people ask next

Questions readers ask about the things this page mentions. Each one goes to the section that answers it rather than to a page written to receive the question.

Where to go next

Sources

What this page rests on. Where a source is marked as registered rather than read, CiderHQ is recording that the body is authoritative on the subject without claiming to have worked through the document itself. See our evidence policy for what each state means.